Official Luthiers Forum!

I wanted to register my guitars as a business and register my guitar brand....
For you guys that have done that (in the good ol' USA) what does it take and how do I go about it?

Again.....any help would be extremely apreciated

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Peter,
   Contact an attorney who is experiencd in trademark and tradename registration. You can register your brand and any number of unique design features as specific to your guitars and business. Usually logo is included with your brandname as you register. Things like headstock shape and other distinguishng design features that make your guitars immediately recognizable can be registered as well.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Peter. In truth, while this is some measure of protection, unless you vigorously protect your intellectual property you will lose it. So even if you trademark it unless you make an effort to find violators and pursue them legally your designs will not be protected long.

My experience has been unless you have something REALLY special and unique it is not worth it.

Just Trademark your logo. I doubt anyone will steal that.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Thanks guys, my real concern is not for protection/copyright of design/features but mainly a way to make this a real business and a recognizable brand! Of course trademarking unique features and logos will be something I will want to do but not my main concern at this time.
Thankspeterm38797.8638310185

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Peter, one of the big expenses you'll face is researching the registry to find out if someone else has used the name/mark/design. Because it's your responsiblility (or your lawyer's) to find that out before you try to register anything.
I'm with Brock, unless you have a staff of powerful lawyers that can pursue this, it's not worth the time/money. One thing that can help you is to document the first time you used the mark/design in question. Then if someone rips it off, you can ask them when the first time they used it and you can have an answer if it's after your first date.
In reality, in this biz, EVERYONE is ripping other's work off whether they know it or not. Your logo and biz name is all I'd worry about protecting.
You mentioned that this would be a way to make it a recoginzable brand. I'm not really sure why. When you register something, nobody knows about it except you and the guy at the agency that cashes your check. If I were you, I'd save the bucks and sink them into advertising/marketing.

It will cost you $355 per trademark, at the US Patent and Trademark Office USPTO. I know, I got 2 last year.

Right now, come up with a name for your company, or a brand for your guitars, or a slogan. When you print it or publish it anywhere (such as on a web page), you may use the TM symbol ( Papier Mache Guitars™ ) next to it. You can do that without spending a penny, and without registering anything. It is the first (lowest) level of trademark protection, but is better than nothing. Keep some indisputable evidence of when you first started using it, if ever you should "want" to go through litigation to try to protect it.

To take an additional step of actually registering the trademark, go to the USPTO, do a search (using "TESS"), and if it appears to be available, you can submit by yourself (using "TEAS") and a credit card. If you were (or their database was) wrong, you'll forfeit the $355, because they don't refund for any reason. But quite frankly, no attorney will file one of these for you for less than $700 - $1000 anyway, so you'll probably be ahead of the game.

Note that if you file, you should say the trademark is already "in use" (you are using it on your website and your printed correspondence), or you will face additional costs later to change it to "in use."

When a few months have elapsed, you'll get an email from the USPTO telling you that you have been approved, and you can then change the TM symbol to the "Registered" symbol (the "R" in a circle) :
( Papier Mache Guitars® )

Hope this helps!

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

sorry Serge Poirier38798.0143634259

Peter, all the folks here have given you some good advice, trademark registration of your name, logo, slogan & emblems, etc. is a good thing to do.

On name,logo, slogans, maskots, emblems, etc. trademarking and registration makes sense and as has been recommended by keeping good records you can approach enforcement with some degree of confidence if the need should arise. Generally a letter to Cease and Dissest from your attorney citing your Trademark Registration will work on these matters.   

Now, as stated above, you can apply to "register" some design aspects or distinguishing characteristics as well. Although, I am assuming that the advice that this can be done and has been done with some success.

Enforcement here is the key,

On protection of intellectual properties (unique designs) I have always gone into the patenting process either for a "thing" or a "process" invented that is uniquely different from anything else that has ever been done. You of course will have to prove that point very deligently.

I have never attempted to trademark or register what I percieve as intellectual properties (unique designs, inventions or processes) but have in fact gone through the patenting process here in the US a few times and have Trademark Registered a number of things like being discussed here, names, logos, etc.

I would recommend that you hook up with a good qualified attorney in the areas of Trademarking or a Patent Attorney in your area and present and discuss what you want to accomplish.
Mike

   I'll share an interesting story concerning tade name/mark registration and the protection of it. Back in 1992 when I was frst considering a move to full time building from my part time efforts, I was working at Martin Guitar. I had just submitted my resignation and preparing all for my move and thought of Don Gallagher and the boys down in Wartrace,YN making guitars under that well kniwn Gallagher name for so long before. I had no problem getting on the phone and giving them a call to discuss my options for the use of my name on my own guitars.

   The folks there were very friendly and were eager to help me as a new entry to the full time prospect of guitar manufacture in any way that they could. When I asked if it would be alright to use my Gallagher name on the headstock of each of my guitars since I was intending to inlay my actual signature and they had a deeply established visibility using that Old English "G" that we've all seen, they were very kind in offering a quick "Yes" in rely. They even said that my not being able to use my name would be like "asking Michelangelo to sign the Sistine chapel work with "ACME Painting" because there was another Michelangelo on the the other side of Rome." A nice and very generous reply in my opinion.

   Well, we decided to do out first NAMM Show a few years later and I had already built nearly fifty guitars using my name in the headstock with no problem or confusion, but I hadn't been working the show loop or advertising on the same pages as Don Gallagher. Nowm understand that Don's guitars are flatpicking monsters and are sought after by many of the best flatpickers in the world and one of his many famous endorsers is the great Doc Watson. My guitars are more contemporary in design and have been embraced by more fingerstyle and contemporary players so the market slices hadn;t intersected up until this point in time.

   At the NAMM Show that year in Nashville, there was a constant confusion with people coming to my booth looking for Don's guitars and people showing up at his booth looking for mine. We were able to visit each other's booths during the weekend and had complimented one anothers' guitars and both Don and I were eager to steer all who came mistakenly to our respective booths to the one that they actually sought so the confusion was harmless at the time, but we began to realize that it could become a problem in the future as my guitars became more visible with numbers in the marketplace increasing and with any press or exposure that could come. We were thinking positively and didn't want to deepen any difficulty that could come from two brands holding the same name even if their designs are distinctly different from one another.

Well, that weekend we decided to adopt a brandname and quickly came to the choice of "Omega Guitars" and I even designed what has been the logo on my last 450 guitars that evening in Nashville. When we came to our booth the next day, we opened for the final day of the show and had loads of traffic in our booth. i had sold the seven guitars that i displayed that weekend on the opening day and had taken a very flattering 75 orders that weekend so we were excited about things coming. About an hour after opening that day, Don and his lovely wife arrived at our booth. Don was his typical friendly and quietly polite self, but his wife was visibly shaken and appeared to even be angry to the point of being livid. We didn't know why, but we visited with them happily for a few minutes when they presented an issue with the two names being shown at the same show and the confusion that it had presented.

   My wife, Paula, and I quicly shared with them our intention of changing the name on my guitars and using the "Omega" symbol as my logo and inlay in their headstocks from that day forward. We were happy to see their relief that it wasn;t going to turn into any sort of legal issue or protection battle. Don's wife actually burst into tears when we offered our solution to the confusion since it was obvious that she was much like my wife in her deep desire to protect her husband and his work from any harm or hardship. My wife gave her a hug and Don and I shook hands and we all felt good about the change.

   We left that weekend friends and with no tension or confusion anymore and that was our primary goal. It's much easier to change names and logos and headstock shapes and designs than t is to heal damaged relationships so there was never a question for us when it came to the long standing name and great reputation that the Gallaghers in Wartrace had established. We have the highest repect for other builders and always want to give them their due space and encourage their success.

The funny part of it is that a month after we returned home from that show, I received a thick packet from Don Gallagher and Gallagher & Son Guitar's lawyer threatening litigation for name and beand infringement and all sorts of things. In the packet were photos of past designs and press coverage for the guitars, their builders and their players and a letter that was surprizingly unfriendly. I immediately contaqcted my lawyer who quickly determined that no registration had been secured on the "Gallagher" name and that history doesn't take the place of the formal registration. He asked(only out of professional obligation to me) if I wanted to expedite the registration of the name and my trademark as "Gallagher Guitars" so that I would be the one holding it and would be the one to be giving permission for its use by others. Without a thought, I declined and simply said that we had adopted and were having great success marketing the "Omega" name and logo and would contact Don to discuss this packet's contents. He was happy to hear that as my reply.

   Upon calling, Don explained that he had told his lawyer that all was settled and not to contact me, but he took it upon himself to send the packet and letter anyway. He said to just discard and ignore it and all was settled as we had originally agreed. I'm sure the lawyer billed don and his company for the time it took to go against his client's wishes, though. That was the onlt sad part of the story.

I just thought you all might enjoy that story in light of the thread's content. It's a story of how most issues in business can be settled in a friendly way and both parties can walk away with respect for one another and be friends. Most times, the legal machine keeps everybody tied up and in turmoil much longr than necessary. It's really not worth it, most times.



Peter,
I send more than half of my guitars to Japan and have some very talented endorsers there who are in their magazines all of the time and are the equivilent of my having a James Taylor or Phil Keaggy here. There have been a few copies of my guitars made by other small builders over there, but no effort to market them as my guitars so I wasn't concerned. I was actually flattered that someone would document the dimensions on my guitars and copy them becaues their favorite players use them.

    My guitars have appeared in loads of reviews and photos and I have been interviewed for articles for Acoustic Guitar Japan magazine(no relation or connection to the US publication) so my published presence is much higher in Japan than in the US. The publications there are much less politically motivated and editorial consideration isn't determined by the amount of ad revenue a brand generates like many publications here. I have experience that validates that statement on both sides of the Pacific and have placed partial page anf full page ads regularly in the Japanese publications as a result of fair and unbiased treatment by them. I've not a placed a single ad in a US based publication and have no plans to do so at this time.

   I would recommend an international registration if you plan to sell overseas, but it still isn't as protective as it may appear or sound.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Very interesting story Kevin.

I had a booth near Don's a few months ago at a bluegrass convention in Nashville. He is a very friendly guy. We talked for a while.
Thanks for sharing.